Curse

Carnivorous Cupcake · Aug 07, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Masochism now gives +2 death magic and soul reaping which looks good from the first glance. Obviously it will find its way into Discordway bars but is it really worth it?

Its only going to add 10 damage to Discord and 2 energy per kill but can help to reassign attribute points differently to make certain skills more powerful or increase the overall number and strength of minions if you are using multiple animate spells.

Thoughts?

Life Bringing · Aug 07, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

It's definitely worth it on the MM. On the other two heroes it will come down to what skills you have on the bar and if th eplayer thinks it's worth it. The health sac is relatively low and will be easy to heal through passive stuff like Recup or just random dropping of PwK when the pressure starts. Through testing, the 30 or so damage from discord and the extra damage on every death nova and the survivability on minions makes a big difference

Killamus · Aug 08, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Health sac is too high. Regular discord is pretty much entirely 1s casts, sac'ing 4% HP every time adds up, quick. It's useful, but in my opinion, 6e every 15 seconds and an extra minion (Which will only be useful on one hero, really) and maybe 15 extra damage isn't worth losing 15 health every other second.

mathiastemplar · Aug 08, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Might be worth it on the MM, not sure about the rest

*lol just realized that u can boost atts on fire ele to 24 and Death necro to 23 o.O*
any1 tried that? dmg must be sick

jiggles · Aug 08, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

Might be worth it on the MM, not sure about the rest

*lol just realized that u can boost atts on fire ele to 24 and Death necro to 23 o.O*
any1 tried that? dmg must be sick

99% sure atts are capped at 20.

subarucar · Aug 08, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Definatly boosts the MM's effectiveness, the health sac is too much for the healer, the curse can handle the health sac, not sure if its worth it for the limited gain.

Chthon · Aug 08, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

ahem... Discordway isn't worth it in the first place. The new Masochsim doesn't change that.

Life Bringing · Aug 08, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

ahem... Discordway isn't worth it in the first place. The new Masochsim doesn't change that.

ahem... discord blows shit up better than any other hero build. The only reason people don't like it is because you actually have to pay attention instead of going afk.

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 08, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

ahem... discord blows shit up better than any other hero build. The only reason people don't like it is because you actually have to pay attention instead of going afk.

HAve you tried 3 invoke lightning + Chain lightning eles.. BOOM BOOM.

Kitor · Aug 08, 2009, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

HAve you tried 3 invoke lightning + Chain lightning eles.. BOOM BOOM.

Are you not considering the part where HM enemies have tons of armor ._.?

OutlawFMA · Aug 08, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Its kinda funny that now CL is exactly IL now except less dmg. But now I will put it on my bar since now exhaustion when enchanted.

Trader of Secrets · Aug 08, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

i can only really find room for it in the discord MM bar by replacing one of the monk utilities like aegis or convert hexes.

Awex Mafyews · Aug 08, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Tried it out with one man version and it didn't make much difference at all that I could notice. Discord blows things up too quickly to worry about adding in an extra skill that isn't needed anyway. Plus the only skill I'd really replace for masochism is signet of lost souls which tbh is still probably better anyway.

Life Bringing · Aug 08, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets

i can only really find room for it in the discord MM bar by replacing one of the monk utilities like aegis or convert hexes.

My MM bar atm is:
Discord
Animate Bone Minions
Putrid Bile
Death Nova
Masochism
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Signet of Lost Souls

SoLS probably isn't needed, but i have no reason to replace it. If i was to replace it, i'd bring Convert.

Xenomortis · Aug 08, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

ahem... Discordway isn't worth it in the first place. The new Masochsim doesn't change that.

You're being a bit unfair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

ahem... discord blows shit up better than any other hero build. The only reason people don't like it is because you actually have to pay attention instead of going afk.

And you're over exaggerating or are somewhat inexperienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

My MM bar atm is:
Discord
Animate Bone Minions
Putrid Bile
Death Nova
Masochism
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Signet of Lost Souls

SoLS probably isn't needed, but i have no reason to replace it. If i was to replace it, i'd bring Convert.

You don't really need Putrid Bile there. I suggest some form of hex removal.

If you're running minions on all your discord heroes, then Masochism probably isn't worth it. But to be honest, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to squeeze it in into any necro bar. I'll have to try it at some point myself.

Life Bringing · Aug 08, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

And you're over exaggerating or are somewhat inexperienced.

Exaggeration/slightly wrong wording.

Quote:

You don't really need Putrid Bile there. I suggest some form of hex removal.

If you're running minions on all your discord heroes, then Masochism probably isn't worth it. But to be honest, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to squeeze it in into any necro bar. I'll have to try it at some point myself.

I only run minions on my MM, and, depending on the area, i put shambling on my second necro. I don't see any reason to not bring putrid. The AoE damage on death softens up other targets and makes them easier to spike down.

upier · Aug 08, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awex Mafyews

Plus the only skill I'd really replace for masochism is signet of lost souls which tbh is still probably better anyway.

I never run SoLS on any of my heroes.
I am not saying to run Maso, I am just saying you might get a free slot of out dumping SoLS. It's a perfect slot to waste it on Rip for instance.

Xenomortis · Aug 08, 2009, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I don't see any reason to not bring putrid.

It's a waste of a skill slot, casting time and energy. The degen is worthless and the AoE damage is insignificant when compared to the spike damage you put out and everything else going on. Honestly, 90 odd AoE damage every 12 seconds will not really be noticed or missed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

I only run minions on my MM, and, depending on the area, i put shambling on my second necro.

One of Discord's charms is that you can easily bring lots of minions. 20 odd undead allies running around is useful cover for a team composed entirely of squishies without a form of rock solid defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

SoLS probably isn't needed, but i have no reason to replace it.

With regards to almost any necromancer bar, Signet of Lost Souls is usually the first skill that can be lost. Soul Reaping seldom requires a backup form of energy gain and SoLS is just there to cover for what would otherwise be inexcusable play for any other caster class (with the exception of an ER Ele).

zwei2stein · Aug 08, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Masochism actually decreases discord overall performance because eventually, heroes have to waste energy & cast time on healing up maso sac. time & energy they could use better by casting discord or anything else. Self-pressue is not worth it.

+2 DM is not really that hot anyway, if it does not involve minions in minion master context (discord heroes are bombers, not point in making higher level more durable bombs, and since all other minion using heroes are bombers too, it should not appear on their bars either.) +2 is pretty weak akin to awaken blood badness.

If you want to use maso, use it on human with order of the undeath and fiends/vamps. There it is used to fullest potential and actually worth a slot.

(Only other use is to use it on secondary /N with aura of the lich in glacial gryphon quest, yay for 14 dm on secondary necro.)

Arkantos · Aug 08, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Discordway overkills enemies anyways. The skill isn't as amazing as everyone wants to think.